Doctor Doug Will See you Now!

Speaker 1:

Rethinking healthcare takes more than disruption. It takes more than thought leaders. It takes change makers and doers.

That's who we'll be speaking to on the Healthcare Rethink podcast, giving you, our dedicated listeners, a rich body of insights to make your own change.

This is the Healthcare Rethink podcast.

Brian:

[00:00:30]

Yes. This is the Healthcare Rethink podcast. I'm your host, Brian Urban. And today, we're digging deep into the world of mental health. And what better way to do that than the chief medical officer of Rula Health, Dr. Doug Newton.

Doug, thank you for joining our show here today.

Doug:

Brian, thank you so much. It's great to talk to you.

Brian:

[00:01:00]

With every episode, Doug, we love to get to know our guests, and have our audience become familiar with your story and how you've come to be. You've had an interesting path. I do want to dig into the public health side of your brain, because I think that is, definitely, hopefully, a staple that's coming through medical education these days.

But how did you find yourself at Rula Health, chief medical officer? Take us through the journey here

Doug:

Yeah. I mean, maybe, I'll start with the public health side. I know that's near and dear to your heart, too, Brian.

[00:01:30]

Really, in medical school, thought I was going to do infectious disease, to be truth to be told. I actually ended up doing an infectious disease-focused, global health policy-focused MPH. Why that's relevant here is, I've always been sort of like a systems-thinker guy. I've always thought about prevention and early interventions, and really, trying to change the course of care for folks, or well-being, frankly.

[00:02:00]

What that led to is an understanding of, gosh, you could do a lot of infectious disease and global health policy. But going through medical school, really, I realized through different rotations, that, in the end, there's so much more to do in the behavioral health space. And specifically, being a child psychiatrist, even more so to do with kids and families and schools, and all the things that we know is like really the social fabric of our society and what we can do to benefit that.

And that led me into great opportunities, both direct patient care, and still, have direct patient care, by the way, I think that's really important, but being in leadership roles through Kaiser Permanente, in big systems, through Optum Behavioral and national level there as well.

[00:02:30]

And also, in another behavioral health technology company, to really understand how to, then, go from really big to really small, and build things up from there. That's allowed me to get to this great position here at Rula, and being a chief medical officer of a great team and a great organization.

And so, a lot of exciting things that are both occurring now and to come, and look forward to talking to you and the audience about that.

[00:03:00]

Brian:

I love this, Doug, because I think your background is, hopefully, the future requirement of those leading an organization like Rula or a particular entity of a healthcare system in the future, because you've gone across the ecosystem.

[00:03:30]

And within mental health, particular, child psychology, that's where a lot of, I think, huge challenges are constantly being talked about across healthcare, and even in other industries as well, the challenges... What are we... Having the youth of our society face today, and the coding that we're having in their experience of childhood into adolescence and adulthood.

So, it's just fascinating what you've been able to do. And when I think about Rula... New name, by the way. Used to be Path. I love Rula. I'm not sure if you can give us a little bit of background on the name, too, before I dig deeper into some questions.

Doug:

Yeah.

Brian:

But what's Rula?

[00:04:00]

Doug:

To be honest, there's a lot of Paths out there. Great name, Path is a great name, but there was just a lot of Paths out there in the healthcare industry. And so, as we're trying to make sure that we're getting care to everybody, we wanted to make sure that we had a name that was unique, that was recognizable.

[00:04:30]

And as such, and I take no credit whatsoever for this, but we had a great team that involved pretty much everybody, but, for sure, our founders, and looking at an opportunity to something that is simple, something that's recognizable. And it really, kind of, I guess, loosely means really kind of light, or seeking light, right?

And so, how do you find it? How do you drive to... What is everybody's truth, I guess, in some ways, right? Which can be seen as both, both on the behavioral health side, but obviously, through wellness and care.

It has some pretty deep meaning, but we want to make sure that it's also, frankly, just recognizable as we are and continue to become a national organization.

[00:05:00]

Brian:

Well, it's very intriguing, because I knew there was a deeper side to the name. I just couldn't find it on my end. I think it's really helpful for everyone of our listenership and beyond to be able to understand why Rula is the name and how that fits in the broader ecosystem.

And looking at the broader ecosystem, we have well over 200 apps, service models today that focus on mental behavioral wellbeing.

[00:05:30]

I look at Rula and all the huge partnerships that you've grown to have over the last several years, and now, the addition of yourself. How is Rula standing out in that very big crowd that's looking to continue to expand?

Doug:

[00:06:00]

Yeah. I mean, listen, it's a great question. It's a great question, not only on a side of looking at the ecosystem, right, and how do we differentiate, but, quite frankly, also, too, that person is trying to make the decision themselves. Right? There's a lot of options out there, quite frankly, just a lot of noise, like, how do you find the right care.

And what we want to make sure that we're doing, and first and foremost, we both say this, and this is how we operationalize things, it's definitely how I function when I came, believe in the fact that we're not a health tech company. We're actually a behavioral health provider group. We are a behavioral health organization that uses technology, that we are enabled by technology, but we're not driven by technology.

[00:06:30]

So, one of the big things is that, we do want to make sure that we have a name for ourselves, but that we, first and foremost, start off with ensuring that we operate in that manner. That we operate as a group. That we hold a certain quality and service standards for our providers. We don't have any provider that comes into our group. We want to make sure that it works for them and it works for us and it works for the patient in the end.

[00:07:00]

And again, we feel a tremendous amount of responsibility, and we support our providers in their mission-driven careers, to ensure that we use technology to get the patients to receive faster, safer quality of care. That really is our main differentiator.

[00:07:30]

And then, of course, we can go down from there, but we really want to make sure that we're using technology to leverage what is good patient care. And that includes anything from supporting the providers on the back end, scheduling and having one single portal and platform, from having an EHR on it, having the video and sessions on it.

To also having these surveys that we send out to patients, to see how they're doing and using that evidence-based... Using the evidence-based outcomes of those, to then, continuously inform the care that they have.

So, again, it's the continuous improvement loop, as well as, just making it easy for everybody to use it.

[00:08:00]

Brian:

That's fascinating, because when you look at comparable services out there today, it's TeleFirst, and then, they're trying to figure out how to integrate into whatever workflow they have in front of them, whether it's a health plan or a healthcare system, or what have you.

But the way that you phrase, it's enabling with technology and you're a provider group giving those services, and the fast and quality component of it.

[00:08:30]

I think, today, finding an authentic relationship with someone to help with mental and behavioral health challenges, it's weeks and months. And having a accessible means to that is extremely important, but also, the quality side of it, too.

I wanted to switch gears for a second, but I had to recognize that. So, with your background, I'm just thinking, already, I feel more comfortable talking to you, Doug, because of your background. It's very calm. I think I hear a fountain in the background, too, which is lovely.

Doug:

Yeah. Hopefully, it's not too loud, but, yeah-

[00:09:00]

Brian:

No. It's the essence of, maybe, what Rula is. I just love it. And I had to call that out for anyone listening audio-wise to be able to flip on the video and see this. But the Dr. Newton side of your brain, so medical practitioner, child psychologist, MPH, and I love that we have the synergy here between us.

[00:09:30]

I'm wondering, in your world, the way that you've put strategy together and the way that you've worked with patients, having that MPH, that public health perspective, that's very interdisciplinary, has that helped you address social health needs that are directly-connected with, maybe, what someone's challenged with from a mental health perspective?

Doug:

[00:10:00]

A hundred percent. And one of the mantras that I've had for some years now is, I see the patient as both the individual and the population. So, how do we help everybody, and how do we make personalized care, but how do we also ensure that we create a proper system around it that is comprehensive, that there's no wrong door for folks? That we get everybody in. And that, if we can't help them, for some reason, that we make sure that they get to the care they need. Right?

We're constantly improving, and constantly, building that ecosystem that gets everybody in. And we want to make sure that, in that moment of courage, they know where to go and where to come, and that they know they're going to be supported.

[00:10:30]

Within that and that perspective, I guess, I really do look at these opportunities to have early interventions and preventions, as mentioned earlier, where can we understand where somebody is at in that journey of care? And once we get them better, how do we maintain that wellness, right? That's really important as well.

[00:11:00]

So, a lot of what I think about day in and day out is this concept, too, of what's called the quadruple aim. And that may be new to some of the viewers out there, but the quadruple aim is, really, this tenet of how do we provide care, keeping the patient at the center, but then, really, building around these core principles of making sure that we do have quality. But also, with quality, making sure that we have the appropriate service. Right?

Like how do we make sure that folks are getting that care, as I said, and having that transition to care when necessary. Making sure they're getting responded to at the right time, at the right place with the right care. And then, also, of course, affordability is important here. We spend a lot on healthcare, and the patient, the person wants to make sure they're getting value.

[00:11:30]

And so, we want to make sure that we're also looking at that. And then, last but not least, making sure there's a provider experience out there. That we're not burning out our providers, that we're supporting them to do the right care.

[00:12:00]

We don't have enough providers, as we know, and we want to make sure we don't lose the good ones. And that's important. That all, then, gets wrapped around, absolutely, social determinants of health is really key here as well. One of the greatest things that's come out of virtual care is better and more health equity, quite frankly, right?

So, we know that, we, at Rula, for instance, know when we match and we can match patients to providers together. We can match them based on certain preferences, up to and including, race and ethnicity. And when we do that, we can look at the data to see how much better people improve.

In fact, we have data to show that we can match on race and ethnicity preference to a patient provider. We actually can get people two times better on average.

[00:12:30]

Brian:

And that's incredibly-important when you think about cultural competency.

Doug:

Yeah.

Brian:

Being able to have an authentic relationship develop in a meaningful way, not in a mismatch way. And I think, for myself, I've had therapists for many years, and my journey of overcoming alcoholism, I needed to have someone I could connect with. It was difficult to find the right therapist.

[00:13:00]

So, when you're matching race, ethnicity, and then, you're also talking about, probably, language as well, that's probably crucial to the experience when you're talking about the quadruple aim.

It makes me think of, many years ago, there was the triple aim, and then, I think we fast-forward to the quintuple aim. But it seems like the quadruple aim is more of the sweet spot of what a lot of different organizations across healthcare can actually deliver on.

So, I love that you commented on that, Doug.

Doug:

[00:13:30]

Yeah, yeah, thanks, and thanks for recognizing it, too. It's not always something that people talk about, and I think it's really important, right?

Because it's a balance here. Again, this does get to the population of individual and what do we need to do to make sure that we, quite frankly, are lifting all boats, but at the same time, keeping that personalized approach back to those preferences. That exactly means so much when you're sitting with that person in front of you. I think that's really crucial.

Brian:

[00:14:00]

Yeah. It really, really is. And I can speak from firsthand experience. So I love that Rula is taking a very defined approach in helping someone get in to therapy and have meaningful conversations.

[00:14:30]

So, Doug, let's shift a little bit. Let's get a little more techie here. We talked to a lot of tech leaders across the ecosystem, and policy influencers as well. So, when I'm looking at mental health, I see the positives and potential risks of how emerging technology can be with AI, and different large language models relative to machine learning, and how that may or may not help an individual address their mental behavioral health challenges.

So, I'm curious of what Rula Health's take is on adopting AI, or emerging into that space?

Doug:

[00:15:00]

Yeah, again, I think this comes back to, if we just do the right thing, which are true north, being keeping the patient at the center of all of this, then, we won't do anything wrong, at least, purposely, right? And I think that's where you have to start, is, if I were getting care, if my loved one was getting care, what would I want to see for myself, or somebody I care about? And as a provider, what do I want to do to make sure that I don't have extraordinary burdens placed on me? Right?

And I think, oftentimes, I'll just cut to the chase, too, is like, there's a lot of documentation that is necessary. It's appropriate. We want to make sure that there's appropriate documentation, for safety reasons, for good clinical quality. But there's also just regulations and hoops and other things.

[00:15:30]

And so, how do we meet the needs of that with the ability to have the provider not have to feel, again, burned out over time, and really, focus on the patient? So, I do think there's uses for AI and large language models to do that. Right? I do think there's an ability to make sure that we can look at appropriate uses of those technologies to not only create notes, but ensure that the notes are accurate and adequate.

[00:16:00]

And then, also, within the notes, and we talked about being able to measure things like depression and anxiety and suicide based on patient reports. That's a lot of data to understand, right, and a lot of data over multiple sessions, sometimes. So, how do we allow these large language models and the AI tools to take those data, and really, what I call, sometimes, the lane assist in the car. Right?

[00:16:30]

I don't want to have an autonomous driving car here when it comes to therapy, or psychiatry, but I do want to be able to give both the provider and the patient decision support tools. How do we see when there's trends? How do we see when things are off?

Again, being a provider myself, there's a lot of data with a lot of patients that you're always trying to track, how do we make it easier to track the right data, and really, allowing that relationship to flourish between the patient and provider.

And so, if we keep that as our true north, that will do the right thing.

[00:17:00]

Brian:

That is such a wise set of comments. Just to break it down for a moment, everyone is hyped up around AI right now, and how it could be applied into many different segments of healthcare.

[00:17:30]

But being able to, foundationally, be strong, which is Rula is right now, and where Rula Health is going, and finding out how AI can be of assistance to providers, and not be the lead or the autonomous driver in this scenario, but how can it help administratively? How can it help be able to, I guess, cue on things that, maybe, the provider could not hear or could not see?

That is such a thoughtful answer, Doug, because I think a lot of people right now are finding the, I guess, choice between diving in, or not doing anything at all. But you are being a very thoughtful observer into how can it be integrated and being curious.

[00:18:00]

So, I wanted to call that out, because many of the folks we talk on the show here is, "Yeah, I'm all in on AI. We have to do it now. We have to do it now". So, I just wanted to recognize the way that you approach that topic.

Doug:

Well, thank you. Yeah, no, I mean, you have to be thoughtful in this, right? To say you're not going to do any of it, I think is short-sighted. And, again, back to the patient, it's not the right thing for the patient. There's such great opportunities here to leverage.

[00:18:30]

And another sort of mantra or thing that I'll say is, whether it's AI or technology in general, we want to make sure that we're augmenting, not creating an alternative to good care. Especially for behavioral healthcare. And I know, Brian, you can attest to this as well, it's about that relationship, and we want to make sure that technology doesn't get in the way of that relationship, but it enhances that relationship. And that's really crucial.

Brian:

[00:19:00]

Yeah. You are just a cornucopia of wisdom through and through, and I love how you said you're not a health tech company, and this really speaks to how you are not. And I think the human condition cannot be addressed from an algorithm made by a human.

So, that level of human to human, it has to be the strongest component of that relationship. I just love where we're going here. And I think the partners that you have are, obviously, a big part of your success.

[00:19:30]

I look at some of the big names you have, and one of them, Cigna. I was with Cigna for a long time. We had behavioral health specialists, we had psychologists, psychiatrists, and it was a little disconnected. We're going back a decade here now. But looking at the partners you have now, it seems like you're providing a very specific service that coordinates care above and beyond what a health plan, or a private payer is capable of doing today.

Is that true? Or are you kind of, I guess, more or less, supplementing or partnering? Where are we at here with some of the work that you do with health plans today?

[00:20:00]

Doug:

Yeah. Great question. Listen, you having been on the other side, I've been from the other side, I worked at Optum, as mentioned, for a couple of years. There are a lot of good people trying to do really good things in both payers and health systems, right? So how do we help them? And then, Ergo, it does help the patient, right, or their member.

[00:20:30]

So, the more that we can become a good partner to them, both, again, it does come down to relationships, frankly, right? And that's really crucial. And so, establishing those relationships. Being able to be honest with them, and being truthful of we're doing really well and where we can improve.

And I think as long as you're not covering those things up and you're showing the directions... That you're trying to have continuous improvement, whether it's the service, whether it's the quality, whether it's affordability, it starts with that, right?

And I think well before time, and again, I don't take credit for it, our founders and our company and my team really wanted to make sure that we had that like business to business, but really, person to person relationship. And that's crucial.

[00:21:00]

From that, comes out of, again, increased interoperability. As mentioned before, we have our own EHR. That's really crucial. A lot of our, I guess, competitors, I don't see it that way, but others that are out there, trying to do the right thing, they don't have their own EHR, right?

[00:21:30]

And it starts with that. Making sure that the data's in one spot. That you then have that continuity of care, and then, you can have that interchange and exchange of information with, especially health systems out there. And then, same thing with the payers. We want to make sure that we are showing that we're improving people's lives, and if we're not, like, why not? Right? And how do we improve on those things? So, again, that dialogue, I think, is critical.

[00:22:00]

And so, within that, we have, quite frankly, some that are more kind of transactional sort of relationships, but for many, they are very deep relationships. I can name a number of them, from the Kaisers to the Ascensions to the UCLAs, to the Cignas and Optums, when we really are looking at partnerships. Evernorth and others. We have very deep relationships with the Blues out there as well.

They've invested in us in ways that's really crucial to make sure that we have a good relationship.

Brian:

[00:22:30]

Yeah. I like how you put that bi-directional. It's not necessarily you fitting into them or them reaching out for this cry of help, it's how you're puzzle fitting in a lot of ways.

Doug:

Yeah.

Brian:

[00:23:00]

As you were describing that, Doug... I have to go onto the Dr. Newton side of your brain here for a moment. I look across the ecosystem, different populations. We have, in the next five to seven years, going toward 90 million people in the US being 65 and older. And we have Gen Zs now coming into the job market, or I guess, into the entrepreneurial market more and more. And then, we have the X and the Millennials, too.

So, we have this very interesting picture of the population in terms of age and socioeconomic status. What, from a mental health perspective, are you seeing being a common thread challenge across all these populations? Or what is, maybe, the population that's leading with the most mental health challenges that they need help with these days?

[00:23:30]

Doug:

You did a great job, I think, of leading into this, frankly. I think there's these two populations, and then, I'll back up into like why, and I think it's a really challenging subject. It's a very sensitive subject, and I'll get to that next.

[00:24:00]

But the two populations that are... the highest risk, we know this based on the data, frankly, and also, as a provider, as a dad as well. Right? I have two young girls and I see the challenges in our youth. And so, we know that child and adolescent is a big area of focus.

And the data, unfortunately, isn't trending in a positive direction. It's actually trending to having more challenges for them. With some hope. There's actually... I don't want to be all doom and gloom here. I think there's a lot of hope and a lot of positives that are starting to come up, with having access to care and having dialogue.

[00:24:30]

But, yes, it's a challenge for our youth. So, it's youth, and you hit on this, the elderly. And what is the common thread here for all of us, frankly, and this is where there is this sort of paradox in technology, is how do we use it appropriately?

And what I mean by that is, loneliness and isolation. The Surgeon General talked about this. There's a lot that's been written about it. There's position statement from the government on this. And with that, we want to make sure that we're coming alongside that data and that push to try to create more connectedness here.

[00:25:00]

And I do think that, over time, we have not been as connected as a society, and quite frankly, even amongst families. I can speak to it in my own family of the screen time. The social media with young kids, how do you navigate these things?

[00:25:30]

It's also true for the elderly, or folks that are older. They're in periods of loss, they're losing friends, they're losing family, they're losing connection. I do believe if we were to really look at, like, again, one singularity, it probably is that loneliness and isolation that's causing mental health issues, deaths or despair, et cetera. It's really something that we need to look into, look at.

Brian:

And that's what I was hoping to hear, is what you're seeing from your leadership perspective across the industry, and then, also, from practice as well. And you help validate a lot of things that I was feeling and thinking about.

[00:26:00]

And I think, a lot of our audience, would recognize the value of what a Rula Health has in the ecosystem, and to your point, others that want to make a contribution, not just what you would think as normal competitors, but others that are trying to help in the space to get people more connected, to reduce isolation loneliness.

[00:26:30]

And just... Man, I could keep talking to you for like hours, but I can't because I know you have more on your agenda today. But I wanted to see if you could give us a quick tease about any innovations, upcoming conferences that you'll be speaking about.

Doug:

Yeah.

Brian:

Projects, things like that.

Doug:

Yeah. A lot of innovation here. One of the things that I always say is I want to make sure that we always have the foundational stuff done right.

So, as we innovate, I want to make sure that we have really defensible mechanisms, and that we're doing the right thing. We have quality assurance and improvement. And the reason why I bring this up, is there's innovation within that. How do we do a better job of being able to have quality and understanding what quality is?

[00:27:00]

And so, the more that we can look at and measure and really understand in real time what we can give to people and give to providers, there's a lot of innovation in that space. So, we are looking at these tools as it's described, both of what we can do, as well as, what others can do with us.

[00:27:30]

And there's a lot of interoperability that's also going to be looked at. Like how do we do better to make sure that we have a care team? How do we do better to make sure that we have that continuity of care? A lot of innovation in that space, and a lot that we're delving into.

And then, as I call it, the Lego pieces. As we have these foundational components, the therapy, the psychiatry, the care coordination teams that help keep things together, what do we do, and how can we actually, then, create what I call these deep integrated verticals, these specialty programs?

[00:28:00]

That's another great area of innovation, and programmatic innovation of, like even deeper connection to kids, to elderly populations, and really, creating these care teams around it, with both people in the seat, as well as, the technology.

So, a lot to come there. We're going to be doing more around research and development. I really want to use our, really, practical, pragmatic data and approach to be able to advance the field, and we can do that with others out there. We already have some of that underway with some of our key partners, because we don't have all the data.

[00:28:30]

So, how do we combine these data? How do we do more to really look at the whole person, both medical side, clinical side, or medical side, and as well as, behavioral health side. And then, last but not least, you're kind of asking about, well, where am I going next? Actually, I can, I guess do a quick plug here, but...

Brian:

Do it. Do it.

Doug:

I'm going to be speaking tomorrow at... I think it's 11:00 mountain time on a webinar for behavioral health tech.

Brian:

Oh, awesome.

[00:29:00]

Doug:

And that webinar is actually going to be talking about... And I'm going to be partnered up with Ascension, one of the leaders there at that healthcare organization, to talk exactly about this partnership. And how do you partner with large organizations, healthcare organizations, or multiple states, as well as, then, with Rula to get and deliver that integrated care.

[00:29:30]

So, that's going to be tomorrow. And as we go forward, we'll be at At Health. Also, be a panelist at some other conferences coming up as well. Again, the more that I can be out there, the more that I can have conversations with other leaders and with other organizations, I think, is going to be really crucial here.

Brian:

I love it. I'll see you in Vegas At Health. I'm not a Vegas guy, but I am going to find my way to you, so we can definitely-

Doug:

You and me both.

Brian:

But very excited for the webinar you'll be having with Ascension, behavioral health tech, tomorrow.

[00:30:00]

Doug, I want to get one more perspective from you here. Looking into the future, you're seeing where we are today, and you look back, you've seen all these advances and you've been in different roles across the ecosystem, what is mental health in terms of technology and service models and care coordination, what is it going to evolve into over the next five-plus years, and how is Rula Health going to be a part of that?

[00:30:30]

Doug:

Yeah. It's like the crystal ball question, right? Hard to say. I mean, us, physicians, are really bad at prognosticating, frankly, in general. But if I were to sit there and look at the crystal ball, I think it's a lot of what we're trying to do. It's a lot of trying to have much more integrated care, much more whole-person care, much more prevention, and using data for good.

[00:31:00]

One of the things that, I think, is really crucial here, too, is that... We all have anxiety, we all have depression, we all have loneliness. We're all dealing with different things in our lives. How do we also look at the positives? What do we look at as far as not just deficit models, but like, how do we look at data and how do we do more to actually support people in the things that they're doing well, and kind of putting money back in the bank, so to speak, with that?

[00:31:30]

I think that's going to be crucial as we go forward. Not just deficit models, but understanding how we actually accentuate the positives in people's lives. And then, as well as, is just using the data, using the technology to support in-between sessions. How do you get that person to feel that they're connected in some way, to what is a healthcare journey and maintaining that wellness. So, there's many opportunities and aspects to do that. It's not just an AI or LLM thing. It really is just being able to create that supportive infrastructure.

[00:32:00]

And a lot of what we're going to be doing here at Rula is exactly that, combining the medical and the behavioral, combining, and looking at personalized care to get people better. And not just at symptoms, but the person, and how are they functioning in their lives. Data, technology, and really giving humans to be a part of that and be the central focus of that, is where it's going to be in the next five years.

I'm really looking forward to it. It's probably the most exciting time of my career, quite frankly, especially as a child psychiatrist, but also as a dad, like I said. I really look forward to the future.

[00:32:30]

Brian:

This is exciting. I'm excited for you, because it feels like you're at this second, third peak of your career, and how you're making a really meaningful contribution as a father and as a practitioner, and as a chief medical officer. It's like all coming together for you.

[00:33:00]

Maybe, a book one day as well. Not to put another thing on your plate, but I can see a few chapters from some things you said here. Especially with prevention, a supportive system, and what you're designing. So, you're going well beyond what a lot of people would think of as a point solution or a throughput. You are building out an infrastructure that is desperately needed in the United States of America today for all the populations we talked about.

Dr. Doug Newton, chief medical officer of Rula Health, thank you so much for joining our little show here today. This has meant a lot.

Doug:

[00:33:30]

Right back at you. Meant a lot to me. Thank you, Brian. And again, thank you to all those that are listening out there. Apologies for some of the background noise at times here, but it is what it is in a virtual world sometimes.

So, again, thank you all. I really appreciate this, Brian. Great opportunity. Thank you.

Brian:

Perfect. Thank you, Doug. And for more exciting insights and excerpts, please, visit us at finthrive.com.