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      How Digital Communities are Transforming Healthcare with Twill

      Healthcare Rethink - Episode 2

      In this episode, we talk to Dakota Donovan and Bobby Murphy of Twill about how they are combining technology with humanity to create digital-first solutions for condition-focused care communities. Are digital communities the future of healthcare? Find out in episode 2!


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      Brian Urban: [00:00:21]
      Yes, that is how you start a podcast. This is the health care rethink. I'm your host, Brian Urban, and today we are talking to those change makers. We're talking to those doers. We have Bobby Murphy, SVP of Payer Sales in the commercial segment and director of Product Marketing, Dakota Donovan. And man, if you don't know about 12 health, you're going to get to know them in ways that you haven't known them before. They were formerly known as Harp Ify Health. And we're going to talk about the story of their change in brand, and we're going to talk more importantly about the story of the emerging role of online communities in digital health. And I think everyone is going to truly appreciate the value that comes through with how are we interconnected in our human condition and how can you reach out for help, and then how can you get that help in an online community? So let's get into it. Bobby Dakota, welcome to the show.

      Dakota Donovan: [00:01:20]
      Thank you. Thanks for having us.

      Bobby Murphy: [00:01:22]
      Yeah. Brian, excited to be here. The inaugural podcast.

      Brian Urban: [00:01:28]
      Exactly. And Bobby, we have known each other for a little bit back in my Walgreens days, back in your health days. So we know each other a good bit. And Dakota, we're getting to know each other a little bit more through this podcast here. So let's just start off with that. So, Bobby, I know that you're a Brooklyn native now, but you didn't you didn't grow up there, you didn't go to school in the area. So tell us a little bit about where you've come from and and where you are now.

      Bobby Murphy: [00:02:00]
      Yeah. So I actually I was actually technically born in Brooklyn. I did move two days later to Connecticut. But so I like to tell my my wife that I'm technically from Brooklyn, so I know the neighborhood more than her. But it doesn't it doesn't play over well. But yeah, that's that's right. I grew up in Connecticut, ended up going to school in Mississippi, and after I graduated, moved back to New York City. And originally I actually thought when I was in school, I was going to focus on commercial real estate. That was sort of a passion I had come into during college. But shortly after I graduated, really got excited at the idea of how technology plays a significant role in the health care experience. And at the time, you know, digital health was sort of an emerging space in the technology sector, and that's been the ride I've been on for the past ten or so years, as you mentioned, coming from the social determinants of health space. You know, in 2016, social determinants of health was really just a buzzword. But today it's really table stakes for any health care organization and certainly anyone that's working with vulnerable populations. And I've had the opportunity to work at 12 formerly half of health for the last year and a half and in some ways trying to do some of the same goals, right. Address vulnerable populations, connect them to care and give them the tools to succeed and thrive. So, yeah, excited, excited at the work we're doing with 12 and excited to talk about it today.

      Brian Urban: [00:03:41]
      Thank you, Bobby. So, Dakota, let's get to know you a little bit more here, because I can carry on a conversation with Bobby for hours, especially as it relates to digital health care. But I love your background in particular. I got to know a little bit about you just on paper, if you will, But you're someone that has a lived experience in terms of reaching out for care and understanding how can you connect your your personal background to others to help each other in a community form? So I would love to hear a little bit about that for our listeners and and also, of course, where you're at right now and where you've come from.

      Dakota Donovan: [00:04:22]
      Yeah, of course. So I grew up in Massachusetts, a little town outside of Boston called Marblehead, and I went to Bates College in Maine and I got a BA in psychology, and I really thought I was going to go into the clinical side of things, get the PhD, do all of that, got out of school, and I was like, No, I like my marketing. And I've always kind of worked for startups, smaller companies. But as you probably read in my background, I was diagnosed with epilepsy when I was 23, almost 24. And so when I started having seizures, I, you know, I was seeing really great doctors and I still felt like I just didn't have any answers as to what was happening to me. And I think I mean, the nature of epilepsy, we just don't know that much about the brain anyways. But even though I love my doctors, I was like, I just I don't they don't know what I'm going through. I need to find other people who have gone through this. Is this normal? I was a pretty healthy kid and college student. And so just having this kind of come up out of the blue was very jarring and took a toll on my mental health as well as my physical health. And so I started looking through community sites, looked at my health teams, and then ended up kind of finding patients like me, which is ultimately where I started to work a few months later. So I found their site join their epilepsy community. I just thought it was so cool. I had no idea that these types of digital communities existed, especially in I'm part of digital social communities like Facebook, etc.

      Dakota Donovan: [00:06:14]
      Instagram, but not in this way where you're really connecting with people who, like I could talk to someone who was 24, who lived near me and who had just had two grand mal seizures as well, and that was really just mind blowing to me and really open my mind to like, okay, there are other people that are going through the same thing you are and it's going to be okay. And you know, this is a really hard time right now, but like there's other people out there. And so that just really opens open my mind into like, okay, where do I want to go from here in my career? Like, I want to really lean into this community experience and this digital health online community experience as well, because it's benefited me so much. So I think I'm almost at two years, four, four, 12 and I had a former coworker at patients like me reach out to me and say, Hey, we're kind of doing something similar at then Copa and half of I as we did it, patients like me, and I just was so excited. I was like, yes, I can't wait to to jump in and start building another community space. Just learning, you know, taking, taking from what I learned at patients like me in the marketing and product space and just helping build another strong community and an app and site. So yeah, that's a little bit about me just very passionate about yeah, online communities and, and having people support each other in that way.

      Brian Urban: [00:07:57]
      I really appreciate you sharing that, Dakota, because I don't think it's easy to share personal experiences that have shaped you, that have challenged you, taking you through struggles. So I really appreciate you sharing that. And it's actually speaks to who twill is now overall, I think is has a lot of passionate people that have experienced a lot of different challenges that are relative to their products. So that's really cool. And and Bobby, obviously your side and background with social determinants of health, it's such a it's such a clear view of why twill has the people they have and why you're doing what you're doing. So I just, I find that amazing and I truly admire that.

      Dakota Donovan: [00:08:35]
      I feel like a lot of people at 12 know I'm just talking about as a company now but are so tied to that mission. And do you have personal experiences? With with health care that they they kind of are passionate about and then want to take that into to their career in their work in a daily basis. So you really just see that working at all day to day to.

      Brian Urban: [00:08:58]
      Of that because you're tied to it, you're tied to it's a part of you. It's not just a job or a task or a project or initiative. You're you're tied to it. It is a part of you, an extension of you. So that is awesome. So probably a good place for us to talk a little bit more about who twill is now. The services, just context for our listeners, services that you provide and the communities, how many communities you have and the different conditions, rare diseases, the different populations that you support overall. So Bobby, I think we could probably look look to you to understand a little bit about where twill is going with some of the solutions that have culminated over the years here.

      Bobby Murphy: [00:09:38]
      Yeah, Yeah. Happy to expand on that. Bryan So I think it's worth setting a table kind of where we've been, which may provide some clarity as to where we are today and where we're going. So 12 today was formerly known as apathy, and that's we only changed our name about 90 days ago. So almost all of our ten year history has been under the brand of apathy. What's been happening behind the scenes for the last three years is this bigger shift and to becoming what we call ourselves today as an intelligent healing company. So when I started, its origins were as a point solution for mental health, and ten years ago that was a relatively novel idea and served us well for the last ten years or so. But what we've seen is in some ways, and I use the word epidemic lightly because I know there's multiple epidemics happening in the world right now. But we've seen an epidemic of point solutions happening in the health care space. And part of this has been because of the COVID 19 pandemic, where all of the sudden everything moved virtual and now health health care partners needed a product, digital product for smoking cessation or weight management or mental health.

      Bobby Murphy: [00:10:54]
      And that epidemic of point solutions really got us to thinking about how we should evolve as a company. So today we deliver sequences and sequences are made up of four distinct elements digital therapeutics care communities, which we're going to talk about extensively digital first coaching and behavioral health. And then, of course, third party integrations, meaning how does the twill experience integrate into other products and services that the health plan or the employer or the pharmaceutical company has in place? And those for what you might think about those four ingredients, that combination we develop and tailor for our partners to make a bespoke sequence. We've also focused specifically on four therapeutic areas. So today that's mental health, psoriasis, m.s. And the pregnancy journey. And within each of those we contextualize it for senior populations, for a commercial population or a medicaid population. We recognize there's a lot of nuances for a medicaid population that might have a different reading level versus a senior population and what mental health means to them versus the commercial population. So we contextualize it across different books of business.

      Brian Urban: [00:12:23]
      Like how you measure that it's personalized to those different populations, and that's a that's a pretty big stretch. So when you think about healthy pregnancies, healthy babies and mass, that's a lot of different communities. So when we think about digital health communities, I guess how would you define community? And this is for both of you, because community is definitely a kind of a stretched definition these days. So how would you define that?

      Dakota Donovan: [00:12:50]
      I would say at its very core, community is about connecting a group of people together and making them feel like they're part of something special. It's a safe place, it's a supportive place. People should be comfortable expressing themselves in a community, asking questions, seeking answers through whatever highs or lows they're going through. And I think as Bobby kind of touched on, we've seen such a need. Like humans are just innately social creatures and we've seen such a need in these past couple of years. With the COVID 19 pandemic, people are turning inward, they're turning into towards digital communities, and they're really wanting that support. And so I think, you know, when you think about a definite definition of a community, you really want to. Cultivate a sense of belonging. Mutual support. Greater influence to. So wanting to make sure people really feel like they're a part of something bigger than themselves, which honestly leads to higher self worth and self self efficacy and I think exploration to just exposing people to new ideas and topics and helping them learn about themselves. And I think there's a definition of a community and there's a definition of an engaged community. I think building an engaged community is honestly less about the mission and the common interest, and it's more about the bond between members and the sense of support and the sensual sense of mutual belonging together. And so I think that's that's really what we try to cultivate as well. And within the 12 care communities.

      Bobby Murphy: [00:14:42]
      And I would even add another comment here. And to keep me honest, you know, we take the idea of these communities very seriously, right? Because people are not coming to these communities to figure out a new hobby or how to redo their back porch. But they're looking for health advice. They're looking for support on a health care journey that may feel very lonely and isolating. So to that end, we take the idea of of moderation and managing the community so that it's safe, so that it's appropriate and things like medical misinformation, which we could have probably a whole series of podcasts on and what that's looked like over the last couple of years. So it's not just the idea of getting people together and creating a community, but also in combination with a safe and clinically appropriate community. So people are getting trusted advice and they know that they can actually rely on what they're learning inside of tool care.

      Dakota Donovan: [00:15:45]

      Brian Urban: [00:15:46]
      I'm just going to ask on that, how it's monitored, how it's how these different communities are curated over time. But you both hit on something which was really interesting, the bonding and the interconnectedness. So how many bonds have you created? I guess how many lives have you touched so far across all these communities? Because it's probably difficult to count at this point. But how many lives do you think have been touched so far in an engaged, positive way?

      Bobby Murphy: [00:16:15]
      So part of this is our transition from happy health to 12 care and 12 therapeutics. So when you think about as an organization and what was formerly the community aspect in that product, the number is is in the millions, right? And people have been engaging in those communities for many, many years. Today, in our distinct communities, the four that I mentioned, EMS, mental health, psoriasis and pregnancy, all of those have actually in this new iteration under this 12 care branding and this new structure have launched within the last 18 months or so. So one of the exciting things is communities like EMS and psoriasis, these are, even though they're prevalent conditions in the single millions of folks in the US that have them. And even within those populations, we're seeing upwards of 75,000 folks in those communities and growing and they've only been around for about a year. So we're very encouraged in those adoptions and that's psoriasis and RMS. Now when you think about mental health and pregnancy, many people get pregnant. Everyone interacts with mental health in some way. We have expectations on the size of those communities to be in a scale more akin to the millions just because they touch a larger total addressable market.

      Dakota Donovan: [00:17:49]
      Yeah, I think so. We just launched our wellbeing community and that got 1000 members within a week. So yeah, we're actually I just got a slack this morning that we're up to 5000 too. And it's only been it's hasn't even been a month yet. So yeah, yeah, we're, we're really excited about that. But even looking at our inaugural community psoriasis, we have over 65,000 members there as well. And as Bobby said, that's only been about 18 months. So there's a real need there.

      Brian Urban: [00:18:23]
      Yeah, there certainly is. It's amazing to hear that growth too. And an early congratulations. That is so fantastic to hear that's growing and the really rich organic way. So that's that's really, really awesome.

      Bobby Murphy: [00:18:34]
      One of the myths that we're starting to address or debunk is this idea of Medicaid. Consumers don't engage in in digital health. And one of the stats that I can share with you so I actually ran this report with Dakota for one of our health plan customers the other day. As part of our onboarding assessment, we ask, What is your insurance coverage so that the individual is self selecting if they have commercial or Medicare Advantage or no insurance or Medicaid. And in our pregnancy community, which has been the pregnancy community specifically has been launched for, I believe, about four months in that community, which has grown relatively organic over that period of time. 50% of the community inside of of the users inside of the pregnancy community have selected either Medicaid or insurance through the state or county. Right. That's a really compelling statistic because if you look at historically what engagement rates have been for the Medicaid population, it's nowhere near that population. That's a way bigger sample size than what the Medicaid distribution would be across the US. And it speaks to the kind of the changing times we're in. Right. A medicaid consumer today versus a medicaid consumer. Five certainly ten years ago. Their ability to access the Internet is significantly increased, particularly with some of the legislation that's happening on a federal level. Their ability to have access to a low cost cell phone plan that has Internet access or a smartphone is significantly higher than it was. So I think we're going to start to see significant, significantly more engagement from Medicaid consumers. And we're already seeing that this space that we've created for them is getting really high adoption.

      Brian Urban: [00:20:26]
      That's a great stat you shared, Bobby, because when you think about populations that are vulnerable in nature, that have lower income, lower socioeconomic status, there are a lot of myths, there are a lot of assumptions that that we think of in terms of their access to care or their understanding of technology or use of technology. Totally not true. Things have changed so much. And even even the current state, I think we have approximately 25 million people on Medicaid in the US today. That might change, though, in terms of eligibility. That's that's that might be shared later this year from from federal guidance. But that's a great point. So you're really tracking to see the types of health insurances that people have access to are currently on and their engagement with your solutions. I love that you share that. I wasn't intending to get down that route, but now that we're on this path, let's let's talk about health plans a little bit. So health plans and life sciences are your two big bodies of clients. But maybe let's start with health plans. So in terms of integrating your solution today, how well has the adoption been with health plans, their their populations, using your services, getting to know it and being so meaningful that they're organically growing their audience within the health plan? Let's talk about that.

      Bobby Murphy: [00:21:50]
      Yeah. So before I talk about health plans, I also I'll just clarify. So we work with health plans, we work with pharmaceuticals. We also work with employers too. So that would be the third bucket. I just wanted to clarify. So as it relates to health plans, the question was what is the adoption been so far? Yeah, so one of the interesting things about having a community product that's public and open to anyone, so for example, anyone that's listening to this podcast could download 12 care on their phone and join one of the communities that I mentioned. Part of the power of that public community and knowing where consumers live, what kind of insurance coverage they have. We can actually go back, certainly in the Medicaid space. We can go back and say, hey, we actually already have this percentage of Medicaid lives in your state that are using our platform. But that is one piece of the health care experience. What we ultimately think that the opportunity is, is, you know, if it's a large managed care organization, we want to be able to connect them into the services that they offer. But the problem, there's sort of this disconnect. The health plan can engage the consumer because they are having a hard time either identifying them or providing a solution that gives meaningful value. And then on the other side, the consumer likely doesn't have access to the services that are offered by the health plan because they don't know about it, because it's disconnected. So we think that's an amazing opportunity, is using this community space to bridge the gap and connect the consumer into the health plans digital ecosystem. So that's all to say when we talk to health plans about this concept, you kind of see their eyes light up a little bit because we're taking the general population in our community and we're helping direct them to services for the health plan to provide better health and well-being.

      Dakota Donovan: [00:23:55]
      And I would add to that not only directing them to their services, but because our platform is highly engaged and we have health tools, we have our own product, they're also more likely to come back. And while they're on the site, they're going to go to those health plan resources as well. They're going to check in with their people, in their feed, etc. and then they're going to remember, Oh, yeah, I have this whole extra service section with my health plan that I can I can check out to. So just our retention rates and reengaging members helps helps give them exposure to those those health plan resources as well that they they may not find otherwise.

      Brian Urban: [00:24:38]
      So definitely an engagement driver, not just within your set of solutions, your community, but through the health plan as well, that the members of that health plan could get access to and learn more about. So I love that it's more of a 360 approach rather than just a siloed product or or point solution. It definitely is. That's all I'm seeing these days is there's one little product for this issue, one little product for this issue, but this is more of a universal approach, community approach. So I did want to talk about something I heard you both say is the experience side of it. So I want to click down and see the user, the personal experience side of this. So when we think about health, it happens at home, it happens in the communities we live and work in. So thinking about the social drivers influencing someone's health journeys and outcomes, how is will now or in the future going to be addressing social determinants of health?

      Bobby Murphy: [00:25:37]
      Yeah. So I think there's probably two ways that we're thinking about our opportunity to address or support addressing someone's social drivers of health. So the first and probably the most obvious is the fact that we have the consumer's cell phone. We're on their phone and we're we have a direct line of communication with them in combination with what Dakota's been speaking to, this idea of trust and engagement. Right. Where they're finding value, they're finding care, they're finding services inside of 12 products, and it's on their phone. So they they go back to that place for for references and services. So that's like the access piece. The second side of it is what's beneath the hood. So everything inside of the twill experience is powered by AI and machine learning. And we're I say this respectfully, we didn't invent we didn't invent the wheel here. We're basically replicating what every consumer has experienced in every other digital product. Right? So if you think about, Brian, your Facebook feed or your tik-tok feed, I mean, that's the whole thing with with those platforms like TikTok is I'm in this TikTok or I'm in that TikTok. And it's what makes it so engaging is it's curated and unique to you.

      Bobby Murphy: [00:27:00]
      So we're taking some of those same principles of AI and machine learning, but we're applying it to the health care experience. So that's the essentially the chassis that we're building today. Now, your question, your original question was how does social determinants play into this? Well, I think the opportunity is as we're working with, let's say, a health plan that is looking to use our sequence approach to address maternal health. And they also want to be able to understand social drivers and then connect that person to social services. Well, we're actually able to ingest data on social needs, whether it's food, transportation, housing, and we can feed that into our AI and machine learning. And we call it the life graph variable. And what that does is going to make the experience more unique. And if those services are available, we can actually direct them to a referral network or community based partner in, in, in their community. Right. And that's we think that's probably one of the most powerful opportunities is the ability to ingest data as data and then use that data to intelligently guide them to services based on the network and partners that we have.

      Dakota Donovan: [00:28:16]
      And not only services like content to. We have an incredible team of editors that are putting out pieces of content every week. Many things, especially in our pregnancy community, are around access to care, how you can get it, prenatal vitamins. You should be taking one of our top pieces in the pregnancy community right now is just what to expect at each stage of your pregnancy. And so using this AI experience, using this personalization engine and our life graph variables, we can intelligently deliver this this content to them when they need it and when they're asking for it, too. So that's been huge to.

      Brian Urban: [00:28:56]
      The intelligence side of the technology is, I think, so overlooked because you're now making it very specific to the people that are in these communities, not flooding them with a bunch of options. And I think that's the old way of of everything we had done in health care before was flooding them with options and not really knowing the person. If you're putting out 20 different options because you're really not knowing the person, it's more like three or four options of the top needs of a person. So I love that that's driving a part of the experience as well. And then connecting services into the into the needs of the people using the communities.

      Dakota Donovan: [00:29:32]
      You need to know the person even more so when they have a chronic condition. For example, our RMS community, there's progression of RMS people who have like a certain stage of RMS do not want to know what primary progressive people are going through right now. That's scary, that that can be very disheartening. And so we've gotten a lot of feedback that like if I see that content, like I'm not going to engage anymore. So you really need to make sure that you're. Exposing people to the right content at the right stage in their journey. Or else you're going to lose them. And they potentially are losing out on on beneficial health outcomes as well. So.

      Brian Urban: [00:30:17]
      Super important, knowing the whole person, not what's happening inside a doctor's office or urgent care or ambulatory settings, the whole person and what they're experiencing. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Love to hear you Hear, hear you say that, Dakota. So I think you probably knew where I was going with with my questions on social determinants of health. How do you think twill will approach health equity in the future? Do you see twill as a health equity champion and leveraging these communities and the intuitive technologies we're talking about.

      Bobby Murphy: [00:30:49]
      I feel like in health equity. So zooming back a little bit, right, coming from the social determinants of health space. In 2016. That was a very new it wasn't a new concept in the sense that social determinants didn't exist. It's existed since the beginning of time. Right. But I would say in 2016 was right around the period where it was getting attention on the national scene. You start you go to health care conferences. There's a topic on it that fast forward 3 to 5 years. It's now the number one or top three initiative of most health care stakeholders. But what what has happened in the last couple of years, really, in my perspective, in the wake of the murder of George Floyd in 2020 and sort of this whole national conversation about racial reconciliation, at least in the US, I think we've seen in health care, social determinants of health as a topic evolve under the health equity umbrella, right? Because we know social determinants of health people of from marginalized communities or disenfranchized communities have typically bigger issues with social determinants. But ultimately all of that plays into a larger systemic conversation about race in the US and how that plays into the health care e.g. this health equity conversation. So I say humbly, I think we're at the very beginning of the health equity dialog in the US and because if you look at today's, it's August 30th, 2022. So even if the health equity movement began, at least in a large setting in 2020, we've really only been at it for about two years. And you could see every major health plan, at least most have hired a chief health equity officer.

      Bobby Murphy: [00:32:46]
      So you're starting to see these very positive signals. What I think is, is at least I have not seen at scale yet is how health equity is turning into action from the organization. Me and Dakota actually had this conversation yesterday. Health equity can't be sort of an initiative, a Q3 initiative or something. We're focused in on health equity needs to play into every single part of the organization at the C-suite, down to the individuals that are delivering on services and from a product perspective. Some of those things, like a small example, would be if we're building a maternity community for the Medicaid population. That community. We need to have the perspective of people on Medicaid from these communities that would be using this product. And that's, I think, the beginning of how we think about health equity. I know our executive leadership team has spent a lot of time thinking about what our health equity strategy is. And I could say that the short answer is we're being thoughtful. The longer answer is how that's actually going to play into our products and services. I think some of the low barriers would be things around access. If you look at the health care system and who it's been designed for historically, it has not been historically, even for non native English speakers or in the pregnancy journey for same sex couples. Right. The thing that we think we have an unfair opportunity is from an access perspective, and that's part of the promise of digital products, is reaching communities that traditionally have been hard to hard to reach.

      Brian Urban: [00:34:29]
      I think I love how you said that the reach is really important because health equity in itself is maybe not necessarily an end goal, but it's a continual progression to creating accessible and fair access to services. And it's really about just knowing the people that you're serving. So if you're across the health care ecosystem of health equity isn't something that's number one for you. Maybe you need to reevaluate. That's my perspective. I think you probably share that as well. But I did want to I did want to understand a little bit more about Bobby, your your perspective, too, and Dakota, where health equity fits in in the product level going forward. Is that still going to be top priority? And I know you're very early into these conversations of where you're going with your journey and your solutions, but is that going to be a top priority at the product level, not just at the corporate mission level?

      Bobby Murphy: [00:35:26]
      Yeah, absolutely. So health equity is going to transcend every single person and is transcending every single part of the organization, from product, from C-suite, from how we position ourselves. The I think the opportunity for us is in some ways we've been trying we haven't been calling it health equity. But part of AFI's original core mission was to provide healing for the many, not for the few. Right? And what that meant was providing a dynamic, unique experience for an individual to address them where they are at that point in the health care I'm sorry, in the mental health care journey. So today we've obviously expanded beyond mental health to these other therapeutic areas that I talked about. But that mission remains the same. Is addressing the needs that you, Brian, as an individual, have at that point in time. And how do we create a unique experience around you in the care you want, in the way you want to receive it? And if you think about sort of some of the key ideas of health equity, I think we're where there's some alignment. I think what is is yet to be determined is as health equity. And again, I haven't seen this, so I would be if any listeners have this, please reach out to me. Cms has defined health equity, but I haven't seen it actually turned into a here's exactly how we're going to address health equity. Here's what this looks like from a definition perspective, an action plan, perspective, results, perspective. I think organizations are starting to do that, including our own. But we're obviously looking at some of the the the best in class partners to really think critically about how we're actually going to define health equity, measure health equity, and then actually determine if we're being successful in health equity initiatives. As you can tell, it's a complicated thing and we're trying to be really thoughtful about it.

      Dakota Donovan: [00:37:26]
      Just speaking from a product perspective, obviously as a company, we're trying to define this and are going to continue to find how how it looks within our organization. But at a product level, we were definitely thinking about how we can eliminate tech bias, how, you know, hiring a bunch of really diverse expert teams on our site, making sure our moderators know and are trained in health equity, just smaller things like that right now. But we're going to continue to build that out within the product moving forward to.

      Brian Urban: [00:38:00]
      I love this. We could continue to talk about health equity as a journey and as a mission and as it comes within to go without. In terms of a corporation, this is absolutely fantastic. Probably where I wanted to start our conversation off, but contextually it made sense how we how we got into this space a little bit more. So we are coming up on time. So one last question for you both and and then we'll do a nice wrap here. So twill health, if I could hear from you both the top three things that you feel you're going to be winning or champion or supporting all the lives you serve in the next 3 to 5 years. Growing out, what are the three big things you think you're really going to be making an impact on the lives you serve?

      Bobby Murphy: [00:38:49]
      And I'll set it sort of speak selfishly from my perspective. So one I think will health is going to do amazing things in the Medicaid space, which you just I don't for my perspective, I don't see a lot of digital health companies investing heavily in Medicaid simply due to the complexity of the population. And I think that there's a sort of a greenfield opportunity for us. So I'd say that's one. The second would be depth within our existing therapeutic areas, right? Pregnancy, mental health, psoriasis, RMS Within all of those domains, we have the opportunity in America to serve people in the hundreds of millions and then globally, certainly the hundreds of millions of lives. So I think we're going to really try to invest in those four therapeutic areas and go really deep to provide an even better experience even before we start thinking about adding on more therapeutic areas. The last piece I would say is in areas like maternity, right? So we just launched it's no secret we launched a large partnership with Anthem. Now Everlane's Health, I always pronounce that wrong or elephant self, excuse me. And we're launching a really big partnership with them. We're really excited and it's focused on our maternity care and we think with our partnership with them, there's going to be amazing opportunities to look at things like measurements in domains like health equity and what the data is going to come to light. And we're going to see how are we serving this community that has historically been disenfranchized or unengaged in the pregnancy journey? And how is that impacting things like complicated pregnancies or preterm births? I think we're going to see some really exciting data points in specifically domains like pregnancy.

      Dakota Donovan: [00:40:43]
      I would also say making an impact in the Medicaid space. I think focusing on a whole person's health. I know we touched on that earlier in this conversation and honing personalization across products, too. So we obviously I work on tool care primarily, but we have 12 therapeutics. We have our Hep Ify. Act as well and making sure someone can move kind of in a flywheel between those products and get what they need, whether it's in our Digital Therapeutics programs doing kind of a more personalized 6 to 8 week program, but then coming back into care and connecting with their care community based on the support they need. And so making sure we're moving a person through their care journey and across our products and in a very highly personalized way is kind of what I where I think we're going and I know we're going based off of our even our product roadmap for 2023.

      Brian Urban: [00:41:45]
      Well, thank you both for taking me on a future trip into, well, health. I really appreciate that. So will health. I will say digital therapeutics and online communities, that is health care going forward. So that's my huge takeaway. I want to thank our guests, Bobby Murphy and Dakota Donovan. This has been the Healthcare Rethink podcast. Thank you very much.


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