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      Influence and Connection Across Healthcare Starts with a VOICE

      Healthcare Rethink - Episode 31

      In the latest episode of the Healthcare Rethink podcast, presented by FinThrive, host Brian Urban sits down with Alex Maiersperger, the Global Principal Healthcare at SAS. Their conversation charts the role voice plays in influencing and connecting the healthcare industry. Maiersperger, who co-founded the Advancement League, shares his journey from being a healthcare optimist to leading global product marketing efforts at SAS. This episode highlights the significance of blending public health knowledge with business acumen, emphasizing the need for a holistic approach in healthcare.

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      Healthcare Rethink: Hear From Leading Changemakers

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      Brian Urban (00:22):

      Yes, this is the Healthcare Rethink Podcast. I'm your host, Brian Urban. Today, we are joined by a legend

      behind the podcast mic, global principal of healthcare at SAS, co-founder of the Advancement League,

      Mr. Alex Maiersperger. Thank you for joining us today.

      Alex Maiersperger (00:40):

      Great to be here.

      Brian Urban (00:41):

      This is going to be loads of fun because we've gotten to know each other before our little show here,

      and you are a big voice in podcasting specific to technology, healthcare, but you talk to a lot of other

      really interesting folks across the whole ecosystem. We'll get into that in a little bit.


      But with every episode, Alex, we like to get our audience familiar with our guests. So let's go back before

      you becoming a podcast host and you having global experience in healthcare and even grass root

      experiences in a lot of different communities across the US. Who is Alex and where'd you come from

      and how did you get into your work today?

      Alex Maiersperger (01:26):

      I define myself, I think, as a healthcare optimist. I've really tried to keep that optimism up as I look out

      and get to experience different parts of the healthcare ecosystem. I think we'll talk about it, but I

      blended a Master of Public Health with a Master of Healthcare Administration, and so I have those two

      parts of my life and then went into hospital administration. So did an administrative fellowship at

      Geisinger Health System, which at that time, and I still believe it today, was held up as a pillar of

      American healthcare, of just a unique place in the world that had all the components you would need to

      really deliver higher value, better quality, better experience care at a lower cost. They had a health plan,

      they bought a medical school, they had a cancer research center, and they had a physician group, and so

      they had all those components that you would need. So really got a great experience there. Spent about

      five years both on the hospital side and then on the health plan strategy side. So got to see both sides of

      Geisinger Health System and got to lead some really important consumer experience work as the

      Affordable Care Act was coming out. Really that switch from we serve employer groups to we serve

      individuals was happening, which was a great focus on technology and different things. That really gave

      me my first taste on the technology side.


      Then I went from there to Blue Cross North Carolina, came down to the great state of North Carolina,

      and have been here since and then made my way to SAS. So really trying to hit a couple of the different

      parts of the healthcare ecosystem. During grad school too, we can talk about that, was part of the early

      team for a now leading telehealth platform, Doxy.Me. So on the telehealth side too. So I have a little bit

      of that startup and fun experience sprinkled in there as well.

      Page 2 of 10

      Brian Urban (03:10):

      It's amazing because Doxy too during the pandemic in particular, a highly used platform for delivering

      telehealth care, but we can definitely get into that. Love the public health background. We have, for

      sure, a connection there. And your experience at Geisinger, how unique, especially when policy change

      was sweeping and when technology was beginning to become more of the forefront of how care was

      delivered, how care was coordinated. Really, really cool. I have seen your healthcare optimist shirt a lot

      on LinkedIn, so I got to get me one of those. But it's great to be able to hear your experience across the

      ecosystem and touching a lot of really unique corners.


      But it's definitely safe to say you are a deep health techie right now and you're an influencer as well, but

      you also have a day job at SAS. It's a software analytic company, it's global. You touch supply chain, you

      touch healthcare, you touch a lot of different industries and different organizations within them. Let's

      talk a little bit about your efforts at SAS right now because you do so many things, but what's your day

      job consist of right now? What are you doing there?

      Alex Maiersperger (04:26):

      At SAS, I lead our global product marketing for healthcare, which is internal sales enablement for our

      sales leaders and internal consulting and friends and partners. So building the communities around our

      global portfolio of products and externally leading the global product marketing efforts, where we have

      a new product, SAS Health, which takes advantage of the end-to-end analytics platform, our premier

      offering SAS Viya, and attaches a common health data model. So an ability to ingest different data

      sources and have a single place for reusable data that you're able to then run more models faster and

      more efficiently, no code, low code, all of the new, latest and greatest technology in a health platform.

      We're really excited about that.

      Brian Urban (05:13):

      I love that because it's now an official extension into health. It's really standing up not only your existing

      models, but putting more on top of that and seeing what other data can be ingested into helping

      achieve better insights, decision-making for a healthcare institution. So really, really, really cool. I

      actually never asked you about what you do at SAS. We've always talked about other fun things in your

      experiences in healthcare and around healthcare.


      I want to touch on your public health background. Your time at Utah, you doubled up with public health

      and administration. In terms of academics, I think it's a bedrock that a lot of all healthcare practitioners,

      researchers, and even those on the product side with technology should have an understanding of

      because it's truly being able to see individual needs that are being impacted by outside clinical services,

      for me in a lot of ways that I use it. But the application of that public health knowledge, it had to have

      influenced your work in your early days with Geisinger and even maybe now at SAS. Can you tell us a

      little bit about the impact of that academic background and maybe what you've used it in today?

      Alex Maiersperger (06:35):

      Yeah, definitely. Appreciate it because I think public health is often a very underappreciated part of the

      healthcare ecosystem, and most public health researchers or public health practitioners, as you would

      say it, point out to drinking water as just some of the things you may not think about or you may take

      for granted in daily life as someone in public health and someone with that public health background

      This transcript was exported on Sep 18, 2023 - view latest version here.

      built it and promoted it and thought about it and made sure that policy was passed and things. So I

      really appreciate having some of that split personality, which I think came from some of that education,

      is even during graduate school, I did the dual degree. So I would have a class at 1:00 PM on the public

      health side of campus, and we would talk about global health initiatives and nonprofits and local state

      government and policy. You'd go straight from there over to the business school at 2:00 PM for class,

      and you'd hear healthcare finance and you'd go through those. So it was always the battle between-

      Brian Urban (07:33):

      Different side of the world.

      Alex Maiersperger (07:33):

      Yes, it was definitely two different sides. But I do think there is a need to blend those two sides. You're

      starting to see it a little bit more in healthcare leadership. I think unfortunately, some of the MHA

      programs, a Master of Healthcare Administration, very often is referred to as a Master of Hospital

      Administration. So having that hospital-centric view of at least the US healthcare world, I think in some

      ways has hurt us as a society from an outcomes and cost and quality standpoint because we think of

      healthcare being delivered in a care setting, which is at a hospital and with doctors and nurses and the

      different parts of the care team, instead of thinking about healthcare happens to us at home and in our

      communities and where we are.


      I think we've changed a little bit of that perspective and that story recently in society. I think we're

      starting to talk about it more. Care models moving more into the home are starting to help. But I think

      for all of the folks who have studied and practiced and been part of public health, they've been saying,

      "This is what we've done forever," and now it's just highlighting that. So having a little bit of both sides

      of the brain and both sides of the viewpoints has really helped, and really fortunate to be at SAS where

      we have a global healthcare team, we have a United States-focused team. We also have a government-

      focused team, which has healthcare leaders and epidemiologists. Really, it's come full circle that I get to

      be on a team that has all of those parts and components and people.

      Brian Urban (09:07):

      It's cool because I would define you as really a healthcare athlete, a well-rounded individual that has

      touched a lot of things experience-wise, but you have the chops in terms of academic background. So

      it's unique.


      I think for me, I was an oddball going into public health graduate school as my background was business.

      A lot of public health researchers do not see that side of healthcare. They see research, they see policy,

      they see evidence that they want to take forward and have discussions about. But I think one of the big

      missing connections is having that blended and having it be a really firm part of someone's education

      and then their work and their career. We are seeing it more. I think there's a lot of MBA and Ph

      programs, but there still needs to be more work around that. But I love you going into that because it

      shows the value. I hope our listeners can understand the value of that connection and being a continued

      lifelong learner, very important as well.


      Alex, let's get into the podcasting side of your life. It seems that it's moved a little bit more into the

      center of your career in terms of what you do with product marketing, development, relationships. Can

      This transcript was exported on Sep 18, 2023 - view latest version here.

      you tell me what it's meant to you personally to be leading a podcast and maybe what it's meant to SAS

      as well? I'm interested on your thoughts there, your reflection.

      Alex Maiersperger (10:31):

      Yeah, really appreciate it. I told my boss the other day that podcasting has been such a joy. It's been

      such a fun, I think ... It's good to articulate the parts of your either day job or the parts of your

      personality that you enjoy and like. I think being able to express that and say, "Hey, this is something

      that I feel I'm learning from or I feel I'm good at or I feel like it brings me joy and excitement," and

      podcasting has certainly been that for me. I don't think I knew that going into it. It felt like maybe this

      will be part of your job, you get to interview some interesting people, talk to things.


      But I think it all comes back to people, both for me personally and for SAS, is on the people side, it's

      incredible. We've been really fortunate to attract just incredible guests. We've had government leaders

      and high profile physicians that you see on TV on the news or you see out there in social media and

      doing global interviews or different things. It's interesting because you imagine just the default setting

      of human nature is you see someone in a high profile position and you may just think they don't have

      problems. They may have day job challenges, but you almost have that hidden human aspect to a lot of

      the people that you see on a camera. So it's been a real fortunate ...


      The biggest thing that I've taken away is just that people are people. Some of the most comfortable

      people that I would imagine that I see on TV giving an interview, they express real, genuine almost fear

      of that red recording light, or they go into the first question and they're like, "Shoot, I wish I'd have that

      over." Even me, I think there's already a question here today that I'd probably answer a little bit

      differently if I had more time or a second take. So no matter how comfortable you think someone is,

      they may just experience the camera in that interview a little bit different or you're put on the spot.


      Then just the real human aspect to it. Again, that feeling of, I see that person, they're in a high profile

      position, maybe you know their salary, whatever it is. You're like, they've got it all made. To get into the

      real questions, whether it's in the prep or whether it comes out on the actual call or through the

      friendship connected ... meeting the person and going through some of their stories, guests who are

      incredibly nervous, guests who are sick while you're doing the program, guests who are figuring out

      childcare or have a kid walk in on the camera. I think we've seen those things. It's a blessing to get to

      know people on that human level and to get to ask real questions.


      So I think on the personal side, it's been just a joy to get to know and experience guests and get to feel

      like you're a part of their life and a part of their story for a short time, and get to ask some questions

      that you ... We take it from almost a personal curiosity standpoint of, "Hey I'd really love to know. This

      seems like a crazy time in the world, and you were right there in the thick of it as a leader and with a

      global budget trying to make real tough decisions. What was that like, and how was your home life, and

      what were you doing?" So getting to ask those questions and get to feel comfortable with people that

      they'll answer them in a way that they are honest and true about has been really exciting.


      Then on the SAS side, been really fortunate as a 50-year-old company to always build with customers. So

      to have customers on the podcast and be able to ... Same thing, that curiosity side, to say, "Hey, you're

      This transcript was exported on Sep 18, 2023 - view latest version here.

      experiencing real challenges and you have competitors in this space and how are you navigating this

      new AI world? What does that actually mean to your organization?" So to get to hear their answers and

      have that be that feedback loop for us to say, "Hey, this is a real challenge that someone's talking about.

      What are we doing about it? Are we building fast enough? Are we building the correct products? How

      do we position ourselves in the market?" has been a great benefit as well.

      Brian Urban (14:26):

      I hope you know I'm taking this literally as a coaching session from one podcaster to another. You're

      giving me great playbook to work off of for building the next iteration of this thing.


      I just find it so interesting that we're in the golden age of podcasting. Eventually, there's going to be

      some sort of expiration date to it or decline with it, but right now, it's a great medium for storytelling

      and making sure that it's not scripted or so polished that it comes off unauthentic.


      I think a lot of your conversations come fluid, and they're very natural dialogue. It's an opportunity for

      people to be able to talk about their lives and some of the deeper curiosity-based questions that you

      were sharing earlier. That's when it ... people care about listening and wanting to contribute and

      wanting to engage.


      I'm curious, top three, let's say, most interesting things you've heard on a podcast or learned during an

      interview? Anything come to mind?

      Alex Maiersperger (15:24):

      On the spot, it's a tough thing go down the ... I think so many. I'll give you three. One is the team behind

      the podcast. I would say no matter probably how big or how small a podcast is, there's usually someone

      that's helping edit the video or there's someone helping upload it to YouTube or there's someone within

      that team. I'd say one of the things that I've learned is just how incredible the team can be that

      surrounds you. Really fortunate at SAS to have an incredible production crew. You joked or you said I

      have a big voice. I think it's really just a big microphone. So I'll put it up of just incredible amenities and

      people and the production crew of high value.


      One of the best things has been just that behind-the-scenes work with people, and whether that's your

      own production crew. When we make mistakes, it's fun. We get the blooper reel internally. Maybe we'll

      produce it externally one year.


      But then behind the scenes also with guests, I think the prep work, there's usually a session of prep to

      go over. "Hey, what are questions that might be off limits or what do you want us to ask? Or is there

      something you really want to get out there?" That's usually just such an incredible honor and

      opportunity to get to know people on a level of here's what they care about. Just what you said. I think

      that part of asking someone, "Hey, what do you want to talk about?" And to get them to say, "Hey, I

      really care about these things."


      This transcript was exported on Sep 18, 2023 - view latest version here.

      There's a couple of things that stand out. There's a few guests that I think have a little bit of ... I'm a very

      informal person, I think, just by human nature. I moved around quite a bit as a kid, and so I had to get

      introduced to new elementary schools or middle schools or high schools. So some of that personality, I

      think, of asking people questions or saying, "Hey, I'm the new person here. Where do I go for this?" I

      think probably has extended into some of the way that I interact with people in the real world.


      So on the podcast side, I think some of those takeaways, and I won't out the specific guests, but some of

      our guests have had very high esteemed titles or things, and they tell pretty funny stories, or they get to

      laugh at different points. I don't think even working with or working within some of their organizations,

      some of the people that report to them or some of the people that interact with them see them like

      that. That's been one of the really fun parts of the podcast as well is just to see that human element

      really shine through of, oh, these are ... Even though they're the head of AI and analytics for this major

      global multinational corporation, they're struggling, feeding their kids corn dogs in the morning, or

      they're struggling doing something else. So that's been a lot of fun is just to get to see that we're all

      trying to make it through our careers and our lives and blending a lot of different pursuits and passions

      and things. I'd say those are the big takeaways from the podcast is there's a lot of individual moments of

      just this is so cool to talk to a real person.

      Brian Urban (18:32):

      I think that's the coolest part as well. I think podcasts, sometimes a lot of people can bring a very formal

      approach, but a lot more, especially in healthcare, have dropped it down to more a personal level. That's

      where you see the real human and realize there are different connection points aside from titles and

      what you oversee and things like that. That's what it's all about. I love to hear that, Alex.


      We drifted away from SAS. I want to get back there for just a little bit here. So your org, again, is spread

      across a lot of industries. Now with the launch of SAS Health, it's a big statement. I guess what is SAS's

      biggest impact to healthcare across the ecosystem, US, or globally today? Maybe what do you think will

      it be?

      Alex Maiersperger (19:25):

      The biggest contribution that SAS has is at the individual level. Again, I said it. It may sound weird

      coming from a software company, but to think through the industries and the impact that SAS has had

      over the years and that we can continue to have and will continue to have.


      On the life sciences side, all validated drugs in the United States go through a regulatory process of

      which we're a partner and we've impacted for a long time. So thinking about that drug discovery from

      molecule to end user or getting it in the hands of a patient, thinking about drugs that have been

      discovered faster or better or cheaper, more effective because of software that allows you to get those

      analytical insights, there's an end user who benefits from that, who takes that pill and is cured in some

      cases or takes that pill and has a better prognosis and a better outcome because of it. There's a backend

      of a team and software that helps influence that decision. So I think about those individual lives.


      Then on the hospital side or even the health plan side, there are so many decisions now that are

      influenced by insights. It could be a strategic decision of where do we place our next hospital? That may

      This transcript was exported on Sep 18, 2023 - view latest version here.

      be informed by an analytical process of demographics and different places and all the things that go into

      that, all the inputs. So being able to be there for a person who in the middle of the night needs you is,

      again, the result of a long history and a big teamwork effort to be able to say, "Here's the insight." Or if

      you're in a hospital, there's sepsis prediction models. There's different things that alert physicians or

      alert the clinical care team to say, "Hey, based on these markers and based on these history and based

      on other patients, this is what the technology is surfacing from an information standpoint. Here's the

      intervention that should be made or potentially can be made." So I think about just the incredible stories

      of individual impact.


      I think now in the age of AI and advanced analytics and just the domination of the headlines and new

      technologies coming out and new experimentation across the industry, I think SAS has a great role in the

      future of getting those insights to clinical care teams or to, potentially, individual patients, to the people

      on the backend much faster and better and surfacing it in a way that says here's what you need to know,

      when you need to know it, and where you need to know it to be able to make the best decision. So

      that's incredibly exciting.

      b (21:55):

      I love the look forward that you just mentioned too. It's the timeliness in terms of the data within a

      supply chain for decision-making. I love that you gave that example of how your software is a part of ...

      from molecule in terms of pharmaceutical manufacturing, going probably through the trial phases,

      through FDA approval, and then into a pharmacist's hands through a prescription to a patient. That is a

      very real story behind what SAS's impact is in terms of the healthcare ecosystem. I love that and plenty

      more to come with SAS Health coming out. That's really exciting to hear.


      I wanted to stay global now for a moment here. When I look just in terms of headlines, some research,

      other publications out there in journals, it seems like a lot of tech in other countries outside the US is

      always having a spin or application to societal good, not just for business, not just for profit. Is that true?

      Are you seeing that in terms of how SAS is impacting healthcare outside the US? Or maybe that's just

      the stuff that I'm gravitating towards seeing in terms of publications.

      Alex Maiersperger (23:17):

      Yeah, there's a lot to unpack there from a global perspective. I actually wrote a post on LinkedIn a little

      bit ago of just my thought process around the global nature of headlines, especially in healthcare. It's

      really interesting to me. In healthcare in the United States when we talk about it, it's almost always on ...

      A lot of it goes back to the technology side. We talk about the most advanced scanning machines or the

      most advanced new technology that's out there to diagnose or to treat. We very much talk about health

      and healthcare in a healthcare sense. So when we talk about overall health of society, we talk about the

      amount of physicians we have or the amount of hospitals we have, where they're located, what type of

      investments we make into them.


      When you talk about health on a global level, at a country level, oftentimes it's more talked about the

      type of food they eat or the naps that they take. So when you just compare the United States to another

      country, we get caught up in these acronyms and in policies and in regulations and in different parts of

      the actual healthcare ecosystem. I think in a lot of places, when you talk about health and healthcare, a

      This transcript was exported on Sep 18, 2023 - view latest version here.

      lot of times health comes first. It's how much are people sleeping and where do they live and do they

      have access to family support and-

      Brian Urban (24:40):

      Or lifestyle [inaudible 00:24:41].

      Alex Maiersperger (24:41):

      ... caregiving for their kids and things. So that lifestyle [inaudible 00:24:44] our health and healthcare

      debate I think in the United States from a headline perspective needs to change quite a bit.


      But I also think what you said is true in large parts of ... We see it from a SAS perspective. On the United

      States' side, maybe it is a little bit more commercial from an aspect, although we do work with the

      government, and we're starting to see a little bit more government influence obviously on the payer

      side with Medicare and Medicaid starting to pick up much larger percentage of budgets and of overall

      payer. We're probably as close to a single payer as you can be without being a single payer now in the

      United States if you look at overall budget size.


      On the global side, we work a lot more with hospitals and health systems and some of the government

      agencies, federal public health agencies. So there's not as much private insurance, and so that might be

      a little bit unique dynamic. But I would say just the thoughtfulness of hospitals being able to interact,

      share data, different things, happens somewhat more in other countries globally because you have that

      system that ... and not for better or for worse also. Sometimes we get ... immediately you have that gut

      reaction of, oh it can't be better than the US. Or it's got to be way better. So there's usually two

      immediate reactions of which side you fall on. But I do think that there's a lot of opportunity to learn

      from the rest of the world, and I don't think that we've done that enough in the US healthcare culture

      and system to be able to say what are things that we can take both from a health and healthcare aspect

      that we're seeing from other companies and other countries around the world.


      That's been a real benefit at SAS as well is to have that truly global nature and integrated teams and to

      have that commercial side, that government side, and that global side to be able to quickly bring those

      teams together internally and say, "Hey, what's happening at the NHS in the UK?" Or, "What's

      happening at this cancer center in Italy? Are there interesting things going on in Singapore, and how

      does that relate to some of the new policy that's coming out in the US? Can we learn from it? Can we

      adapt from it? Are there things that we should be advocating for or thinking of or building products

      for?" That's been real fun to see of just how that global community can come together to say there's

      some really good things that are happening here.


      They say, what's the quote? "The good artists copy and the best artists steal." I think we absolutely

      should be stealing more from the international health and healthcare community of, hey, this works

      there, and it definitely should work here.

      Brian Urban (27:26):

      I love that perspective, the community, and how insights can feed back and forth to the commercial, the

      global, government side. It just makes sense, and it makes sense that you have set yourselves up for

      This transcript was exported on Sep 18, 2023 - view latest version here.

      success in terms of your growth and your reach across the globe. Industry to industry, but really within

      healthcare, that is really fascinating to hear. You made that sound very simple. Obviously, it's very

      complex, but you made that sound very simple in terms of the view that we need to have in terms of

      changing our view on healthcare in the US. I love that you talked about that. I saw your post and, yeah, it

      is headline heavy on the infrastructure of healthcare in the US and how we define that and how it's seen

      globally entirely different. Maybe that's why you see a huge difference in spend, life expectancy, quality

      of life studies that are longitudinal in nature, a lot of great studies around the world that look at

      happiness as an index. It's really cool that you shared that. I wasn't expecting that.


      Alex, we've covered so many different things. I want to get back to the podcast side just briefly here to

      look into the future. Again, podcast is a great medium. It's a great way to highlight, elevate stories,

      messaging, develop relationships, a lot of different things aside from just learning. How do you see this

      evolving over the next two, three, four years? Do you see podcasting changing, going away, new

      iterations? What do you see in the next few years with podcasting and healthcare?

      Alex Maiersperger (29:12):

      It's so scary making predictions. I remember the early stages of the COVID pandemic, that there were

      some big predictions of crowds will never come back, and there's never going to be a large gathering

      again indoors. Seeing those and screenshotting them, saving them, being like that can't be true. I think I

      felt that that came true. So whatever I say has the caveat that I hope there's no screenshots of, "Alex

      said that podcasting's going to die in the next years," or whatever it is.


      But I do think there are a few things that just trend-wise I can see from a consumer perspective. One is

      just attention spans. I think every iteration of technology, at least from a social perspective or from a

      listening perspective, it seems like our attention spans get shorter and shorter. I joke that we're in a

      headline era verse the depth of the article era. A lot of people are like, "We see the headlines and we

      know those things, but we don't really read the underlying article," already. I imagine that progressing

      these next few years, and so maybe shorter form clips and different things will be even more popular

      than they are today.


      I can also see podcasting ... I think already the song is years old now that said, what was it, "Video Killed

      the Radio Star"?

      Brian Urban (30:31):

      Oh yeah, that was the first, yeah, music video I think on MTV. Yeah, yeah.

      Alex Maiersperger (30:36):

      Right? Yeah, so it's been a little bit, but Video Killed the Music Star was written back then, and I think it's

      probably more true now. I think probably pure audio form podcasting will continue to turn more and

      more into video platform, just because of the nature of a lot of the social media apps or different things

      that we have being able to see someone or feel like you connect in a little bit better way. So I would say

      definitely a shorter clip might happen, or at least the distribution of it. They'll probably get cut up into

      small clips, and you'll have more maybe dedicated communities to specific topics or things. So you might

      be able to foster that community by those short clips that then someone gets into the long form. But

      This transcript was exported on Sep 18, 2023 - view latest version here.

      just diving into the long form first is probably asking a lot from an attention standpoint of someone

      that's not already prebuilt into that community or knows you personally or things.


      I think it's really interesting too from a podcast perspective or from a future prediction perspective, if

      the last few years have taught us anything, it's that we probably don't know anything. So it's going to be

      really exciting to see what happens from a technology standpoint these next few years. Maybe there's a

      new platform that makes it easier to connect in a group or in a ... I think we saw the rise of a couple of

      those during pandemic time of audio-only groups or different things and they quickly subsided. So I'm

      sure there'll be another trend.


      But the trend of connecting with humans, whether it's in video form or voice form or in-person form, is

      never going to go away. The biggest prediction is just, it's going to be more and more important to hear

      directly from sources that you care about and trust and are interested in and people that you can then

      go meet in real life. That's, I think, the biggest prediction that I have is just the doubling down, tripling

      down, whatever you want to call it down, on human nature is to be together is really important.

      Brian Urban (32:44):

      That's a great look into the future, not a very specific view. There's some blurriness there, but overall

      the trend is going to continue. It's going to be continued value in terms of producing more content.

      Having it be video, I agree, I think that's the best way you can be able to interact and engage and feel a

      sense of connection. So we'll see what happens. I know I'll be following your podcast, and this has been

      an honor to have your voice here on our little show, Alex. So thank you very much for coming on and

      sharing your experiences and your wisdom. I love what you're doing at SAS. Thank you, Alex.

      Alex Maiersperger (33:26):

      Oh, this has been so wonderful. Thank you so much, Brian.

      Brian Urban (33:28):

      For more exciting insights and excerpts, please visit us at finthrive.com

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